There are several sites that have it. I know jw-wayback.org
If you go that site you can also get all the BOE letters and such.
There you go:
Anders Andersen
JoinedPosts by Anders Andersen
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10
How could I get a copy of the elders secret book?
by purrpurr inthe shepherding the flock one?
i'd love to read it and get the inside track of how the elders are meant to work.
anyone got a pdf?
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Do Circuit Overseers outrank Elders? Why can't they talk to disfellowshipped people?
by garyneal inlast sunday, our family went to the kingdom hall and i realized that this was the week that the circuit overseer was in town.
when we sat down, i noticed he came over and talked to her then he walked away i guess to talk to others.
a few minutes later, he returned to tell her that he could not talk to her because he was informed that she was disfelloshipped.
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Anders Andersen
wt 15 4/15 p. 31 - "For the sake of reminding disfellowshipped ones of how they can return to Jehovah, elders may periodically visit those who have given some evidence of changing their ways."
Yes. The elders manual clearly states that this should be done following these rules:
- Only once a year
- List of persons to visit will be decided on by the body of elders
- Two elders will be authorized to visit the DFed.
Of course these details aren't stated in the WT lest regular Joe Publisher find out how legalistic this 'loving' arrangement actually is.
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Do Circuit Overseers outrank Elders? Why can't they talk to disfellowshipped people?
by garyneal inlast sunday, our family went to the kingdom hall and i realized that this was the week that the circuit overseer was in town.
when we sat down, i noticed he came over and talked to her then he walked away i guess to talk to others.
a few minutes later, he returned to tell her that he could not talk to her because he was informed that she was disfelloshipped.
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Anders Andersen
Not even elders are allowed speak to (make small talk with) DFed persons.
Only elders who are authorized by the whole body of elders may speak to DFed persons once a year to see if they want to return (to their vomit).
And for those DFed who visit meetings, elders aren't allowed to talk to them unless it's necessary for their reinstatement or if the person needs to have some arrangement for transport to meetings.
So the CO just did as he and other elders are supposed to do: no make small talk with DFed people.
By quickly stopping to speak to the DFed, the CO also gave a strong signal to elders: Follow the rules! Shun! I listened to this minor thing you brought to my attention, and in reciprocation you should obey my every word!
Him coming back to say 'sorry, wont talk to you no mo' is probably his last shred of human decency combined with the desire to let the DFed know they are being punished because they're DFed. He prefers to be a shunning asshole over being mistaken for an asshole who forgets about a conversation and doesn't return to it.
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Realization of something very close to a supernatural force but scientific
by Bad_Wolf inafter finding patterns in lottery numbers and thinking about if random truly exists, i also flipped a coin for awhile.
i was counted how many times i would get heads and tails and if they would equal out in the end.
if heads slowly was getting ahead too much, i would suddenly get a bunch of tails in a row to almost equal it out.
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Anders Andersen
Thats just it, I probably would not be able to due to his vibration or whatever you want to call it
Randi sure must be a wizard that he manages to jinx all other peoples magic skills.
And it's very interesting that you claim his mere presence would screw you over...without even having met the man (I assume) .
Of course you could do some sort of live stream event where you take people's input and then throw the number they request. No Randi present.
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Realization of something very close to a supernatural force but scientific
by Bad_Wolf inafter finding patterns in lottery numbers and thinking about if random truly exists, i also flipped a coin for awhile.
i was counted how many times i would get heads and tails and if they would equal out in the end.
if heads slowly was getting ahead too much, i would suddenly get a bunch of tails in a row to almost equal it out.
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Anders Andersen
There is a .09% chance of getting heads 10 times in a row.
Indeed. And once you have tossed heads 9 times in a row already, the 10th time is still 50%.
In that situation the 9 times in a row already happened. Therefore the odds that that has happened = 100%.
On the next toss your coin doesn't care about the previous 9 tosses, nor does any mystical equalizing force care or even exist.
Once you already tossed heads 9 times in a row, the odds of coming up 10 times is 100% x 50%.
You're suffering from Dunning-Kruger-effect. Yes, you should look that up. It's a serious condition.
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Reclaimed voices respond to jw.org's recent public statement regarding the Dutch governments decision to investigate
by Diogenesister ini'm so sorry if this has already been posted but i think its too important and interesting to miss.. reclaimed voices chairman raymond hintjies responds to jw.orgs dutch lawyer's statement that the dutch govt.
investigating watchtower's 300 incidents of csa would be akin to"shooting a mosquito with a water cannon" .
i particularly like raymond's sensitive message to concerned jw parents, at around 3 minutes or so, .
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This Article Won't Change Your Mind - Great Read
by cofty inthis article won’t change your mind - the facts on why facts alone can’t fight false beliefs.
brilliant article in the atlantic by julie beck discussing the phenomena of cognitive dissonance and how it affects religious and political beliefs.
it includes some interesting thoughts on how social media has magnified the problem.. spoiler - she is not optimistic about the possibility of successfully reasoning with members of religious cults.. the article also has a link to the 45 minute audio version.. link....
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Anders Andersen
Interesting article!
Theres a side of the story I'd like to add though. The same Kahan mentioned multiple times in the article did research into how both intelligence and 'scientific curiosity' have an effect on how people perceive facts.
The results?
Higher intelligence results in people being smarter at finding and understanding evidence that supports their worldview, while having enough arguments to refute evidence that shows them wrong. Intelligent people are better at believing something that is actually wrong.
So what helps people accept the real facts, even if it may not fit in their world view? Curiosity. Curiosity into finding more information about a subject. Not just to fortify their own position, but to actually learn.
https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2017/2/1/14392290/partisan-bias-dan-kahan-curiosity
That's why even intelligent people join and stay in cults. They're intelligent, but not curious enough.
And that's why Jw are strongly told to never even have a tiny look at apostate information, as curiosity can lead to their 'spiritual demise'.
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Anybody here still believe in the bible?
by Mel Morris ini'm a current bible student of jw's looking to chat with someone about biblical doctrine.
i'm not interested in talking with an apostate or a fader, i'm just a person looking for answers and wondered if there are any neutral voices in this forum who have good insights into the bible.
i currently talk with a couple of jw's on a personal level from my congregation and they are knowledgeable to a certain extent, but i dare not ask them certain questions because, as you know, the congregation has a culture of fear that impacts trust and openness, especially concerning biblical doctrine or the societies teachings.
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Anders Andersen
Hi Mel,
Welkome! I hope you realize that unless you accept Watchtower doctrine 100% you're an apostate yourself already (according to Watchtower).
So why avoid your peers? ;-)
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Be Couragous! - (Like The Governing Body?)
by pale.emperor ini was watching lloyd evans rebuttal to the saturday program of the be courageous convention.
lloyd pointed out something that had occurred to me as well:.
all this talk and examples of courage, whether it be standing up in class defending intelligent design, putting up with being imprisoned, not running away from bullies, always having a reply to someone who tries to ridicule your faith... the young ones are encourages - nay, commanded - to stand their ground and be courageous.
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Anders Andersen
@doubter
You may have something of a point when saying that it isn't fair to narrow down the definition of courage down to the examples discussed, and that the GB once had the opportunity to show courage in their lives as lowly publishers.
However, you're wrong on a couple of things:
It is their job to boldly proclaim the good news before judges and magistrates. Of all JW, especially the GB are to do this. The 'other sheep' are merely playing a supporting role in the preaching work, for the preaching work is actually a task for the anointed (such as the GB). The GB also claim to be 'ambassadors' for Jesus and the Kingdom. Ambassadors of all people should be willing to proudly represent their government.
Public Relations deal with media, lawyers deals with legal matters, the GB deals with doctrine.
Nowhere does the Bible indicate that God's people should be structured exactly like an American commercial enterprise. It doesn't appear the apostles had divided tasks like speaking to rulers, judges or inquiring members of the public. All of them did all of that. And since the GB sign off on (and therefore bear responsibility for) any and all doctrine, publication and policy, they of all people should be willing to stand up for what they signed off on, regardless of the legal entities they have cooked up. Legally the GB may not be in charge of Watchtower, morally they claim to be appointed and in charge of anything and everything Jesus uses for the Earthly part of his Kingdom. According to JW that includes Watchtower. Saying otherwise is abusing legal technicalities to get out of something that is a moral responsibility.
Why are the GB not talking to reporters, etc? It’s not their jobs. Their jobs are to establish and defend doctrine.
'It is not my job' is quite a lame excuse. Sure, we can accept that when a request for a interview comes in that the PR dept. would handle that (strange thought....aren't all JW part of the PR dept. by definition?). But when approached in person, why not stay and proudly present the Kingdom and defend it's divine rules and policies? Can you imagine Paul or Peter running away when a reporter starting asking the hard questions? Lol
Courageous people don't hide behind 'not my job'.
That guy that courageously saved people from a house fire? He was just passing by; he's not a firefighter. It's not his job.
That woman that saved a drowning person? She's not with the coast guard; it's not her job.
We call these people courageous in part because they acted on something that's not their job.
If a lack of overlap implies “cowardice” then every organization on the planet is full of “cowards”.
Most organizations don't go and tell all their employees they must be courageous and willing to defend the organization everywhere they go. Can you imagine Coca Cola telling their employees' children they should courageously speak up when they see someone in school drinking Pepsi, saying Coca Cola is the only true cola? :-D And then when the CEO of Coca Cola is called into an Royal Commission hearing and is asked whether Coca Cola is the one true cola, he fumbles around "it would seem quite presumptuous to say that Coca Cola is the one true cola....."
The examples Pale Emperor listed are great examples of how the GB do not show courage when the opportunity arises. They act exactly as one would expect from corporate directors, not as one would expect from spirit-directed, Jesus-backed leaders of God's people.
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Be Couragous! - (Like The Governing Body?)
by pale.emperor ini was watching lloyd evans rebuttal to the saturday program of the be courageous convention.
lloyd pointed out something that had occurred to me as well:.
all this talk and examples of courage, whether it be standing up in class defending intelligent design, putting up with being imprisoned, not running away from bullies, always having a reply to someone who tries to ridicule your faith... the young ones are encourages - nay, commanded - to stand their ground and be courageous.
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Anders Andersen
Their jobs are to establish and defend doctrine
I always thought that was Jesus' job. Guess he was replaced then....